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General discussionFF XIV rant review: Can someone explain MMOs to me?(51 posts)(51 posts)
(51 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted March 12, 2016
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snowkatt: bloody hell old fruity did you try to write a novel ?

i also dont like ham
or cheese
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Maighstir: What the hell do you have on your pizza then? Just tomato sauce?
nothing i dont eat pizza
because most are contaminated with cheese and i hate cheese i just avoid them all together
Posted March 12, 2016
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P1na: So anyway, after all this, I finally reach the conclusion: I don't get MMOs. Why are they fun? Where is the fun in them? Why are people paying subscriptions to games that actively try to prevent you from actually playing?
They're fun if you're wasting time with a bunch of friends. If you compare solo play of an MMO to a single player game then you're going to be MMD - Mega Massively Disappointed. Unlike ham. Ham isn't disappointing.

As to why people pay subscriptions for them, it's cause they're dumb and think there's a premium value to it (less noobs, better updates, etc.) but in reality it's the same as the free ones. Sometimes even worse because you're paying them $200+ a year to screw you over and then you still rationalize to yourself that it was somehow fun and your investment wasn't a waste.

If you ever get involved in a game that requires grinding or has some type of progress system then you'll understand why people keep on doing it. It's cause they feel they have an investment in it and don't want to lose their stats/dailies/items. It can actually take a while to finally just break away completely and realize that you were trapped into their system.

I personally prefer playing games with friends (on the rare occasions that people are bored enough to consider me one) that don't involve any grind or investment. They always wanted me to grind to max level first on my own so I could do raids that I don't even enjoy and didn't fit my schedule. But in games like Dota you can just hop in and do some matches on equal level/equipment footing where skill is the only factor.
Posted March 12, 2016
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snowkatt: bloody hell old fruity did you try to write a novel ?
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P1na: It's a rant proportional to the time spent on the game, and the frustration accumulated by it.
Feels like how when I wrote my review/impressions of Rebel Galaxy...

Still it is fairly long. I need to get myself something good to drink/eat before I attempt to read the long multi-post. So otherwise don't mind me til I actually read it.
Posted March 12, 2016
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JMich: snip
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P1na: I said it before, but my favorite MMO was one I played in uni for a bit called fairyland. The combat was turn based, kinda like the old FFs, and as such the game didn't require that much attention and I could focus talking to my party members and chatting with friends. It was cool, kinda like what you say. Problem is, most MMOs try to have an "engaging combat" that ends up being neither better than a full on "proper" single player game nor tame enough to chat while playing. So I don't see the point.

As for why we wanted to play Titan, it seems the primal fights were supposed to be awesome, and it's multiplayer content. But to reach that content, you have to jump through the hoops. And jumping through hoops is not fun, so while we kept skype open to chat, he preferred to play something else.

As for GOG as the MMO, when I come to the forums I come to chat. Reading and writing takes all my attention. When I go to an MMO, I neither chat well nor play well.

And I appreciate the explanation. I already reached the conclusion that I don't like ham, but I'm still curious about why others do, which is the point of the thread (besides venting). I just hope nobody takes it personally when I so openly question the validity of a genre they enjoy.
I agree with JMich that playing with people part is the main attraction of MMOs. Even if it's not friends per se, just having a low-stress way to chat and play with people is nice.

That said, I can't stand most MMOs either. The only one that works for me is GW2, because it's easy to drop in and out of it and grouping up on the fly works amazingly well. Everything is designed around fire-up-and-go gameplay as opposed to other MMOs I've tried where play time needed to be a lot more structured.
Post edited March 12, 2016 by Gilozard
Posted March 12, 2016
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sunshinecorp: Oh, I hope so! I love pineapple pizza!
You most definately are a horrible person. Pineapple on pizza is the worst invention since MMOs, time continium be damned.
Posted March 12, 2016
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sunshinecorp: Oh, I hope so! I love pineapple pizza!
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P1na: You most definately are a horrible person. Pineapple on pizza is the worst invention since MMOs, time continium be damned.
Nope. It's great. Pineapple. And HAM. LOADS OF HAM. A LOT OF HAM! HAM-A-LOT. CASTLE HAM-A-LOT.
Post edited March 12, 2016 by sunshinecorp
Posted March 12, 2016
Wow, got a lot there. So first off, you sound quite a bit like Spoony. He often rants about immersion breaking gameplay, and things that make no logical sense when you think about it.
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P1na: Normally you could tell this story in what, half an hour? An hour? Not here! Here, it's stretched out so much it reaches DBZ levels. It's excruciating

All the rest was unnecesary busywork: Go talk to this guy, then bring back the package, then kill 5 mosquitos.
I remember spoony trying out FF14, and they had warriors delivering pies... no surprise there. To be honest killing low level monsters, sure if it keeps the peace, but delivering stew and pies should be referred to servants, and non-heros.
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P1na: I still get excuses about "if you haven't even reached lvl20, you haven't seen the true game, of course it's simple and boring", doesn't that mean that all the hours I had put into the game over those 2 weeks were pointless?
The game gets REALLY good after 40 hours. WHAT? I don't want the game to get good in 40 hours, i want the game to be good now!
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P1na: If you stop and lose your companions, they'll get annoyed so no sightseeing.
Heh, and old school games loved to shove collectables and hidden stuff for you to find. If they don't...
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P1na: Even better when you finally get dinner ready and can finally fight the threat, only to be stopped because you aren't lvl 34 yet.
Level gating. The easiest way to artificially pad the game. Considering most games if you grow a certain amount then your enemies in your next area will match your level.

I kinda prefer games where you can go off the beaten path, and if you do great then great, if not then you could get brutally murdered. Although the truly annoying ones are ones that don't have any warnings you are changing difficulty levels.
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P1na: I feel the game would be 75% shorter if there were telephones on them. It would solve so many problems! Unfortunately, in this fantasy world there are none... except, I got a radio when I joined the scions. How could this be? Well, I rationalized maybe it's high tech only available to elite groups such as the scions... only to see them be widely used during the end game military assaults! And they still have me go up a tower to give them a message! Dafuq is wrong with those people?
Hey, that gadget looks like something cool to play with... nope, it's never used again - Spoony (Talking about the intro to FF13)
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P1na: "That's how MMOs are. Why? Because that's how they are, end of discussion"
I'm getting tired. So I'll post this and see if I feel like ranting more later.
*sigh* a few hours of fun filled with lots of filler, and due to the content extensions and power levels, nothing has any difficulty. Too much filler.

I personally think the basic gameplay loop for MMO's is bad, a grind. If you can't enjoy the core gameplay loop then you shouldn't play. Don't get me wrong, I can't stand grinding either, which is why I haven't played any MMO longer than 2 weeks (although one I would have played more except it threw me into a pvp area and then I got brutally murdered by another player while trying to fight monsters I could deal with, purple f***er with ??? for his level).

So far there's only been one game that felt pretty good as an MMO, called FireFall. It's a bit more science fiction rather than fantasy (this was 11 months ago, it's changed to target korean players and isn't as fun now), and you use radios everywhere so you're talking to your client while you're walking to them or away from them, keeping you from having to deliver pies. It took a long time to really feel like I was doing the same things over and over again, which was a good thing. Still after a while the MMO-ness rears it's head. Level caps and requirements, gating, multiple player instances required, etc (although the required players is actually needed due to the levels being hard).


So WHAT is an MMO. Quite simply it's a grindy filler, an expensive face-book game, except you and your friends can be online at the same time so it feels more satisfying (an artificial feeling). It's heavily plagued by waiting timers (or cooldowns) all over. All in all, with or without friends, MMOs are a waste of time, and most people play them because their friends are playing them. The game is intended to only be played a couple hours or so at a time, then left. However they add in incentives to play longer so you feel like you aren't taking full advantage of your time if you don't. Unfortunately they don't know how to make really good long term story, when it's a lot easier to make monsters spongier and have a 'must play 1 hour' requirement for 5 minutes of content.
Post edited March 12, 2016 by rtcvb32
Posted March 12, 2016
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Smannesman: I also do not like ham.
Do you like them in the rain? Do you like them on a train?
Posted March 13, 2016
MMO's are about the journey, not the destination. Ever wondered what your favorite game would be like if all the NPC's and party members were real people, that would be what it's all about in my opinion. I quit FF11 Online when I reached max level.

I really would have liked to do Chains of Promanthia storyline with a crew and try to beat Ultima Weapon.
Post edited March 13, 2016 by bad_fur_day1
Posted March 13, 2016
Oglaf made fun of MMO quests last week. A lot of what he posts is NSFW, but that one's fairly clean.

I've enjoyed a number of MMOs, but not a fan of base game cost + sub fees. Totally am a fan of pineapple pizza. Ham, canadian bacon, jalapeno - any of those on pizza with pineapple is good by me.
Posted March 13, 2016
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P1na: *snip*
I think the South Park episode "Make Love not Warcraft" explains MMOs nicely.
Posted March 13, 2016
I also don't like ham.

I've tried a handful of MMOs over the past 17 or so years, and have only liked 2 of them.

Dark Age of Camelot - Lots of interesting and good lore but it isn't delivered in a compelling way, you have to want to know the things and spend time reading it as you do questing. Where the game shines is PvP/RvR and Keep raiding+defending.

DOMINUS - Never made it to ALPHA and got cancelled! UGH!!!! It had so much promise, but they didn't have a big enough audience to keep their investors investing. I'm still kind of devastated.
Posted March 13, 2016
I think that "I don't get X" is good enough to leave it at that. People have different tastes and different things appeal to them. Some like shooters more, some like adventure games more, some like "walking simulators" and some like Candy Crush. Most don't get how the others can like what they like.

I started writing a long response about what appeals in MMO's to certain kind of players, but I'll try to shorten it:

- Not everyone cares deeply about story.
- Repetition appeals to many people. Most games are repetitive.
- For many people MMO's are about the endgame, not the way there.

There's more to it than that, but really, it's just a matter of personal taste.
Posted March 13, 2016
I like MMOs. WoW is a personal favorite. Raiding is especially great when properly made. The more interesting the lore, the better the questing. And the occasional PvP is not too bad. Alterac Valley was especially great. Ah. MMOs are really nice when they are well done. I met so many interesting people. Spent so many nights and afternoons chatting while playing with them. So much laughter and cups of hot tea during the winter. I'll get back to playing Vanilla WoW now. Maybe I should try FF XI to see how it is. I heard it was especially great for a multiplatform MMO.
Posted March 13, 2016
All video games are pointless and so is sex if you don't want to have kids and yet that doesn't stop us from playing games or having sex now does it?
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionFF XIV rant review: Can someone explain MMOs to me?(51 posts)(51 posts)
(51 posts)